   |
| Форум » Основной раздел » Iron Tower Studio » Вопросы Винсу Веллеру (Для интервью.) |
| Вопросы Винсу Веллеру |
|
|
|
Как много вы играете в чужие игры? И если вообще играете, то что из вышедшего в последние 2-3 года произвело наибольшее впечатление? (не важно положительное или негативное)
# 2 | , 12:23 | FromLeftShoulder
|
|
Пара вопросов от Интерактивиста:
Can you recommend any books (like Dungeons and Desktops by Matt Barton and Shane Stacks or The CRPG Book Project) or blogs/sources (like Iron Tower Studio depository) to aspiring devs, RPG enthusiasts, connoisseurs or intelligent video game journalists (who actually try to do their job properly and do want to know things about history of genres, game design concepts, role-playing game systems and other features)? Here is an old (2012) quote by Cleveland Mark Blakemore, the man who gave us Grimoire : Heralds of the Winged Exemplar. It's been more than 10 years. Yet even today these words will resonate in the heart of any competent player. Do you agree with main problems described by Cleave (big RPG success is hard to pull off but still possible, "brain shortage", "lack of the ability to focus")? Will the genre get better or worse? Is it just clueless managers, "risk elimination" and bloated budgets? Any bigger pitfalls? Please, do not restrain yourself, mister Weller. Let it all out, we remember and appreciate RPS interview, give us the obliterating honesty of hardened indie developer.  Since you are RPG ethusiast, tell us - what do you think about replacing standard persuade-streetwise-impersonate skills with "choose your rhetorical style in the beginning of the game (and there is also some sophisticated quest to get second style)" kind of mechanic as can be found in Expeditions: Rome? Ethos for aristocratic characters and NPCs. Logos for rationalists and people of letters, who can be persuaded by arguments. Pathos for manipulators, trolls and their victims. There must be obvious restrictions for sure. A character with plebian background cant just pick ethos and so on. Isn't this approach just better and more elegant? 
m00n1ight (Автор темы)
 I am nothing (but odd man).
Группа:
Фактол
Регистрация: 2011-02-10
Сообщений: 3058 |
|
|
|
Цитата FromLeftShoulder (  ) Как много вы играете в чужие игры? И если вообще играете, то что из вышедшего в последние 2-3 года произвело наибольшее впечатление? (не важно положительное или негативное) Battle Brothers - loved it (enough to start thinking of making a somewhat similar game; not a clone but adapting the concept to our design and strengths) Subnautica - oddly soothing, best cure for work stress Pathfinder - fantastic implementation of the ruleset Frostpunk - great atmosphere and design |
|
Как вы записываете сюжетные идеи? И в каком виде хранятся наработки? В игре много ветвящегося текста и наверняка в несколько раз больше всяких черновиков и примечаний, которые в игру не войдут. Как структурировать такой объём информации?
|
|
Цитата Vince ( ) Battle Brothers - loved it (enough to start thinking of making a somewhat similar game; not a clone but adapting the concept to our design and strengths) Вау. Мне кажется это было бы очень круто. # 7 | , 15:14 | FromLeftShoulder
|
|
Цитата _______ ( ) Can you recommend any books (like Dungeons and Desktops by Matt Barton and Shane Stacks or The CRPG Book Project) or blogs/sources (like Iron Tower Studio depository) to aspiring devs, RPG enthusiasts, connoisseurs or intelligent video game journalists (who actually try to do their job properly and do want to know things about history of genres, game design concepts, role-playing game systems and other features)? Цитата _______ ( ) Since you are RPG ethusiast, tell us - what do you think about replacing standard persuade-streetwise-impersonate skills with "choose your rhetorical style in the beginning of the game (and there is also some sophisticated quest to get second style)" kind of mechanic as can be found in Expeditions: Rome? Ethos for aristocratic characters and NPCs. Logos for rationalists and people of letters, who can be persuaded by arguments. Pathos for manipulators, trolls and their victims. There must be obvious restrictions for sure. A character with plebian background cant just pick ethos and so on. Isn't this approach just better and more elegant? Can't say I like it. There were many aristocrats who were skilled and well-educated 'rationalists' and philosophers, as well as good manipulators. Or low- /middle-class men who successfully did all three. Thomas Cromwell would be the best example. We prefer a skill-based approach and if we stay in business long enough, we'll try to evolve it to make it more tactical and less 'pick the line that corresponds to your highest speech skill'. Цитата _______ ( ) Я бы спросил ещё о гипотетической будущей игро об испанской инквизиции. Я не раз видел её упоминание, но вроде нигде не видел хоть какого-то раскрытия темы. I love the 19th century's Gothic novels like The Manuscript Found in Saragossa or Melmoth the Wanderer. Love the idea of proper magic, witches being dangerous, Lucifer corrupting souls and commanding agents, the Christian faith a shield against darkness, which is everywhere, the Spanish Inquisition fighting the good fight, cursed places abandoned for a reason, forbidden knowledge, supernatural creatures, that sort of things. Needless to say it would make a great setting, but how do we get there? The main character would be a monk, armed with faith and potent prayers fuelled by faith but full of doubts that can be exploited. Basically, a character development fork: a man of God bringing light into darkness or an occultist who abandoned God's light, trading it for forbidden knowledge. Both character types would communicate with powerful demons - dukes of Hell and such, but in different ways. - The demons and most "magic-users" can't be killed as they're far too powerful; you can only bargain, protect yourself, play them against each other, maybe banish from your presence to piss them off even more; thus the focus isn't on demon slaying but surviving in a dangerous world most people are unaware of. - you use combat (or speech/stealth) against the human minions or human enemies standing in your way, like the Inquisition if you turn to the Dark Side. - such a setting would be perfect for relics, both Holy and Unholy. - skills like languages (reading ancient books, communicating with demons, etc) and rituals (from exorcism to summoning), derived stats like Faith and Sanity, etc. - magic would play a large role: prayers, words in God's own language, signs, magic circles & pentagrams, rituals, spells and incantations. You'd acquire them from archives, NPCs, rituals, etc. Too much "hands-on" Occult knowledge would weaken your Faith and thus the power of your prayers and Holy relics, just like too much Faith would weaken your dark rituals and incantations (i.e. it will be hard to play a hybrid). |
|
Возможно, не совсем корректный вопрос, но всё же.
В свете последних сетований на недостаток освещения в крупных изданиях, с какими конкретно вы пытались связаться, и что они ответили (если ответили)? m00n1ight (Автор темы)
I am nothing (but odd man).
Группа:
Фактол
Регистрация: 2011-02-10
Сообщений: 3058 |
|
Вы как-то говорили, что к каждому полноценному проекту планируете выпускать небольшую игру-спутник, вроде Dungeon Rats для The Age of Decadence. Что насчёт подобной игры для Colony Ship?
m00n1ight (Автор темы)
I am nothing (but odd man).
Группа:
Фактол
Регистрация: 2011-02-10
Сообщений: 3058 |
|
Цитата _______ ( ) Вы как-то говорили, что к каждому полноценному проекту планируете выпускать небольшую игру-спутник, вроде Dungeon Rats для The Age of Decadence. Что насчёт подобной игры для Colony Ship? Цитата _______ ( ) Возможно, не совсем корректный вопрос, но всё же.В свете последних сетований на недостаток освещения в крупных изданиях, с какими конкретно вы пытались связаться, и что они ответили (если ответили)? Naturally, we contacted everyone who covered AoD, but didn't get a single response. We hired a small marketing agency to handle our EA launch, but they got the same treatment and were surprised by the outcome. I can only assume that Colony Ship is even less appealing than AoD. Some of your readers suggested that it's because going sci-fi was a bad decision. Maybe so, in which case the market will vote once again and we'll (have no choice but to) abide by its decision as well. |
|
Цитата Бобёр ( ) Как вы записываете сюжетные идеи? И в каком виде хранятся наработки? В игре много ветвящегося текста и наверняка в несколько раз больше всяких черновиков и примечаний, которые в игру не войдут. Как структурировать такой объём информации? |
|
Цитата _______ ( ) выпускать небольшую игру-спутник Хм. Тут у меня тоже сопутствующий вопрос. Не думали ли вы, что выпуск повествовательно-ориентированного текстового квеста/интерактивной новеллы был бы для фанатов РПГ интереснее, чем игра с минимумом повествования, ведущая игрока через череду тактических боёв? Или сделать игру вроде Dungeon Rats проще и дешевле, чем что-то вроде Сира Брантэ? # 13 | , 16:16 | FromLeftShoulder
|
|
Цитата Vince ( ) Maybe so, in which case the market will vote once again and we'll (have no choice but to) abide by its decision as well. Какие-то планы или идеи по развитию идеи наверняка есть. Если не отдельная игра или дополнение, то какой-то контент-патч после выхода игры, включающий наработки, не вошедшие в основной релиз? m00n1ight (Автор темы)
I am nothing (but odd man).
Группа:
Фактол
Регистрация: 2011-02-10
Сообщений: 3058 |
|
|
|
Цитата _______ ( ) Какие-то планы или идеи по развитию идеи наверняка есть. Если не отдельная игра или дополнение, то какой-то контент-патч после выхода игры, включающий наработки, не вошедшие в основной релиз? Beyond that.... If Colony Ship doesn't sell enough to pay for the sequel (a game that's easier to make since we'll use the existing systems and many assets like animations, weapon/armor, gadgets, etc), we won't have any options left. So IF we made a mistake, it's our last mistake. Цитата FromLeftShoulder ( ) Хм. Тут у меня тоже сопутствующий вопрос. Не думали ли вы, что выпуск повествовательно-ориентированного текстового квеста/интерактивной новеллы был бы для фанатов РПГ интереснее, чем игра с минимумом повествования, ведущая игрока через череду тактических боёв? Или сделать игру вроде Dungeon Rats проще и дешевле, чем что-то вроде Сира Брантэ? Trying to switch to another sub-genre if Colony Ship fails would probably be a mistake. |
|
Цитата _______ ( ) С Colony Ship вы перешли на Unreal Engine? Чего вы больше всего ожидали от этого перехода? Оправдались ли ожидания? С какими проблемами столкнулись? |
|
Массовый игрок возмущён, что игры Iron Tower издеваются над ним. Однако в настройках Colony Ship появились новые опции, упрощающие жизнь новичкам, как то выбор из двух вариантов сложности и настройки генератора случайных чисел.
А в чём ещё вы "пошли навстречу" менее хардкорной аудитории? m00n1ight (Автор темы)
I am nothing (but odd man).
Группа:
Фактол
Регистрация: 2011-02-10
Сообщений: 3058 |
|
И раз уж на то пошло, как вы относитесь к детерминированности, чёткой определённости игровых параметров? Уровням атаки, повреждений, проверок навков (Fallout: New Vegas) и так далее?
m00n1ight (Автор темы)
I am nothing (but odd man).
Группа:
Фактол
Регистрация: 2011-02-10
Сообщений: 3058 |
|
Цитата Массовый игрок возмущён, что игры Iron Tower издеваются над ним. Однако в настройках Colony Ship появились новые опции, упрощающие жизнь новичкам, как то выбор из двух вариантов сложности и настройки генератора случайных чисел. А в чём ещё вы "пошли навстречу" менее хардкорной аудитории? Как думаете, в Colony Ship сможет играть человек, который раньше не садился за компьютер? |
|
Цитата Vince ( ) The only way to learn more about game design is by playing games and (if you're an aspiring developer) by trying to make your own. John Priestley long time ago wrote a brilliant allegory about a conversation between a mage from XII century and a designer from XXI century. The mage explained how it took 9 centuries for all mages to disappear: there was a great fear of uncontrolled power growth in students. So each master-wizard was teaching only parts of his/her arcane legacy/spellbook. What could go wrong? Everything. Mages got wiped by nested intervals, by Cantor's intersection theorem. Inherited "parts" were getting smaller and smaller. And one day - puff, nobody is competent anymore. In the context of game design: this is exactly what is happening with many RPG developers right now. Even greatest studios/companies are loosing their arcane design powers, being unable to reproduce "the magic" of their own games from the past. The market shifts, the audience is changing, true. There are other reasons, sure. But the main problem remains unaddressed. And this is... There is no systemic theoretical (I will dare to say "academic") approach to RPG game design. There is no general theory of RPG design (and no Albert Einstein of RPGs for sure). Developers are not teaching each other "the whole thing", which begins somewhere between 1975 - 1979, everyone knows just some parts. Few play older RPGs to learn what was good/bad/lost forever. Few know the history of RPG genre, at least to some extend. Same mistakes are repeated again and again. Constructive RPG criticism is rare, marketing is often misleading. RPGs are complex and difficult to make. Meaningful role play system + combat model + exploring + dialogues + game economics + characters + main quest + side quests + lore + narratives + factions + plot forks + too many bloody things. The consensus is that the most difficult genre right now is MMORPG. RPG is #2. With deepest respect to Iron Tower Studio and you personally, Vince, but "play RPGs and maybe try to make your own" will not cut it. # 21 | , 17:40 | The_Interactivist
|
|
Цитата _______ ( ) Массовый игрок возмущён, что игры Iron Tower издеваются над ним. Однако в настройках Colony Ship появились новые опции, упрощающие жизнь новичкам, как то выбор из двух вариантов сложности и настройки генератора случайных чисел.А в чём ещё вы "пошли навстречу" менее хардкорной аудитории? Цитата _______ ( ) И раз уж на то пошло, как вы относитесь к детерминированности... Цитата Гость ( ) Хороший вопрос. АоД — почти идеальная игра для ознакомления с жанром. Простая, логичная, в неё могут играть те, кто раньше вообще не видел компьютерных игр. Цитата Но всё портит отсутствие автораспределения опыта, люди про это забывают и проваливают проверки навыков. Such things work best in class-based systems like Pathfinder. In a game like AoD forcing a specific build on a player who might be playing it differently would have been a mistake. Цитата Как думаете, в Colony Ship сможет играть человек, который раньше не садился за компьютер? I'm having a very hard time imagining someone who never used a computer suddenly getting an urge to play an indie RPG. |
|
Цитата Interactivist ( ) Sir, can we discuss this a little bit? Цитата The mage explained how it took 9 centuries for all mages to disappear: there was a great fear of uncontrolled power growth in students. So each master-wizard was teaching only parts of his/her arcane legacy/spellbook. What could go wrong? Everything. Mages got wiped by nested intervals, by Cantor's intersection theorem. Inherited "parts" were getting smaller and smaller. And one day - puff, nobody is competent anymore. It's a cute theory but it's not applicable to game design. The explanation is below: Цитата In the context of game design: this is exactly what is happening with many RPG developers right now. Even greatest studios/companies are loosing their arcane design powers, being unable to reproduce "the magic" of their own games from the past. Because they're not trying to reproduce that 'magic'. They're trying to sell more units, which is a very different game. Do you think the former Interplay developers forgot how to make games like Fallout and Planescape? Fallout sold 400k units, Baldur's Gate sold over 2.5 mil (counting the sequel and expansions). That's where the magic went. That's why when Obsidian got a shot at making their own game, they went with BG (Pillars), rather than Fallout or PST. Plus, what do you need a game design book for? Play Fallout (or your favourite 'old magic' RPG) and analyze it to death. No hidden design secrets there. Цитата There is no systemic theoretical (I will dare to say "academic") approach to RPG game design. There is no general theory of RPG design (and no Albert Einstein of RPGs for sure). Because RPG is the most diverse 'everything goes' genre. Isometric, first person, third-person, class-based, skill-based, turn-based, phase-based, real-time, party-based, solo, action, tactical, story-driven, etc. You can't have a unified design when the genre is anything but. Then you have the money factor. Some games sell a lot, others - not so much. If I were to write some articles on how to make RPGs, I'd be writing articles on how to make RPGs that don't sell, would I not? |
|
Хорошо, пара вопросов не про Colony Ship.
Which RPGs you have played before becoming editor-in-chief of certain prestigious magazine? Was Fallout your first rodeo, or you had a lot of RPGs under your belt? We all know about Fallout, Prelude to Darkness and Arcanum, I remember that once you said that you don't like BG, but that's all. Tell us about games that you've played and loved. What do you think about pretty much demise of the classical dungeons (think Wizardry, Eye of the Beholder or Ultima Underworld) in the genre? With their traps and often obtuse, but very enjoyable navigational puzzles, hand-drawn maps and other thingies and stuffies? They often belonged only to several subgenres, but still. Was their decline understandable (I know, Legend of Grimrock) or genre itself lost some of its spirit and soul? |
|
|
| |||
